Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42nd Street

 

The fact that few people getting into exploitation and grindhouse movies these days have ever heard the name Bill Landis is nothing short of a travesty.  One that the book ‘Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street’ seeks to rectify. 

If Bill Landis is remembered by the average cineaste today, it is for his 2002 book ‘Sleazoid Express: A Mind Twisting Tour through the Grindhouse Cinema of Times Square’, but Landis’ writing and the Sleazoid name (a concatenation of ‘sleaze’ and ‘celluloid’) dates back to June 1980. It was then, in NYC, that Landis began Sleazoid Express as a newsletter, initially documenting his viewing activities on 42^nd Street, before expanding it into a zine that went on to include his misadventures in drug use and porn acting.  Time hasn’t been kind to many of those early grindhouse zines.  These days when whole books, audio commentaries and documentaries are dedicated to once obscure horror and exploitation films, those tiny, capsule reviews in no-frill zines, written at a time when information on such movies was still in its infancy, are hardly going to pass muster with a 21^st century audience.  Sleazoid Express, on the other hand, has grown into a vital, warts and all, historic document of the heaven and hell of 42^nd Street, a window into a world that no longer exists, and now can only be experienced through the rented eyes of those who were around back then.  When it came to giving you the lowdown on what it was like to take your life in your own hands by entering those movie theatres, befriending the area’s most extreme characters or embarking on a porn career in the dying embers of the porno chic era, those early Sleazoids leave you in no doubt that the rented eyes of Bill Landis were the best in town.  The original run of Sleazoid Express went out with a bang in 1985, with the incredible “Ecco: The Story of a Fake Man on 42^nd Street” issue (from which this book gets its name).  Entirely about Landis’ descent into drug use and porn acting, with Landis referred to throughout as ‘Joe Monday’ or ‘The Quiet Man’, Ecco also proved eerily prophetic of Landis’ own death, from a heart attack at the age of 49.  “The Quiet Man died at the movies Sunday night of an apparent heart attack.  Witnesses claim it happened during a revival house showing of The Magic Christian, a 70s sex comedy with Racquel Welch and Ringo Starr.  The scene in particular was one in which Ringo is lording over a slave ship comprised of semi-naked women clad in fetishistic outfits.  It was around this time the quiet man gasped ‘Its better...better than the stills...’ and, clutching his chest, fell from his seat dead”.

Its impossible to be exposed to Landis’ work and not end up a little bit obsessed by the man himself and the times he inhabited.  Preston Fassel, the author of Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, is a man who has been bitten by the Landis bug more than most.  Spending several years chasing Landis’ ghost and putting together as comprehensive a document of Landis’ life as is humanly possible.  A complex character with an often combative personality (to put it mildly) Landis left a legacy of broken relationships, bad memories and ill feelings, and as such those who knew him haven’t exactly been falling over themselves to talk Landis and Sleazoid in the years since his death.  As Fassel notes, the Covid-19 pandemic and the death of Landis’ arch-nemesis Joel M Reed (director of Bloodsucking Freaks) proved the catalyst that shook the old guard into contemplating their own mortality and opening up about the past “the other survivors were suddenly eager to make sure their stories of that time got to live on”.

Talking Bill here are fellow early 1980s zine publishers Michael J Weldon (Psychotronic), Jim Morton (Trashola), film collector Ron Roccia (of ‘Mad Ron’s Prevues from Hell’ trailer compilation fame) as well as journalist Kurt Loder, whose Rolling Stone article helped publicise the zines of Landis and Weldon.  Representing the second wave of exploitation film zines are Art Ettinger (Ultra Violent), Keith Crocker (The Exploitation Journal) and Mike McPadden (Happyland).  Curiously, Landis is remembered as competitive and critical of the rival zines that were around during Sleazoid’s first run- particularly Rick Sullivan’s Gore Gazette- “they couldn’t stand each other” recalls Weldon of Landis and Sullivan, yet encouraging and supportive of the ones that followed Sleazoid’s initial demise.

Covid-19 and the death of Joel Reed (once described to me in an email from Landis as “a venal, non-human”) may have prized open the jaws of many, but there are still a few notable no-shows in this book.  Attempts to involve Landis’ widow and latter day co-writer Michelle Clifford clearly met with radio silence.  Likewise Fassel got no dice from Landis and Clifford’s daughter, Victoria ‘Baby Sleazoid’ Landis, while Jimmy McDonough –Landis’ main collaborator during the original 1980-85 Sleazoid run- also pled the fifth.  The absence of Clifford is perhaps to be expected, given that she totally dropped out of the public eye several years ago, but the lack of input from McDonough –who has hardly been tight lipped about Landis and Sleazoid in recent interviews- is more surprising.  As such, Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, does contain several empty spaces in the Landis story, that leaves both the reader and Fassel himself wanting to know more, but coming up against a brick wall.  That isn’t to say there aren’t many new revelations that Fassel brings to the table here.  The rise and fall of the original incarnation of Sleazoid Express may be a well told tale, but Fassel breaks new ground when it comes to charting the Landis story following the 2002 Sleazoid book.  A heartbreaking, but eye opening, final act that Fassel manages to piece together thanks to the acquisition of Landis’ final, unpublished work.  A semi-autobiographical novella called ‘Last Exit in Manhattan’ that finds Landis embracing Catholicism, suffering a relapse into drug addiction, being separated from his wife and daughter, a stint in psychiatric care and embarking on a new career as a lookout for a Dominican drug gang.  A fate that even Landis’ worst enemy (and there sure were enough competitors for that title) may have thought twice about wishing upon him.  Against considerable odds, Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, therefore represents Fassel’s attempt to write something of a happy ending for Landis, by bringing the man and his writing back into the public conscious.  In Fassel’s eyes Landis was a great American writer, whose work has for too long been the subject of neglect and scorn.  Fassel has nothing but praise for Landis’ writing, describing the Sleazoid book as “the apotheosis of all of Bill’s writing on the deuce and exploitation cinema”.  He also paints Landis as a man who was ahead of his time, especially when it came to LGBT issues, and was crucified because of it.  Landis was championing gay filmmaker Andy Milligan, and singing the praises of gay pornographer Toby Ross in the pages of Sleazoid, at a time when the majority of horror/exploitation focused publications either refused to touch gay themed material, or regarded it with homophobic contempt.  It’s a stance that, Fassel claims, led to Landis’ quick fall from grace within the early pages of Fangoria magazine.  While an interview with Andy Milligan made it into the magazine (and is re-printed at the end of this book for the first time since 1982) a proposed piece about the films of Toby Ross went down like a lead balloon with ‘Uncle’ Bob Martin, the then editor of Fangoria.  Martin becomes quite the villain of the piece in Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, where it is suggested Martin was so incensed by the Ross article that he not only forever blacklisted Landis from the pages of Fangoria, but pestered other magazines into following suit.  Thus, depriving Landis of any chance of a mainstream writing career.  While this goes unmentioned in the book, it is worth noting that Martin’s vendetta against Landis also spread to the film Geek Maggot Bingo (1983) in which Martin briefly appears as a character based on Landis, a fact explicitly acknowledged in the end credits of that film “Bill Landis imitation courteousy (sic) of Bob Martin”. 

Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street emerges as a far more compassionate portrayal of the man than has come across in recent books which have touched on the subject, such as Xerox Ferox (about the 1980s fanzine scene) and Bloodsucking Freak: The Life and Films of the Incredible Joel M Reed, which finally saw Reed break his silence and give his side on his legendary feud with Landis.  Perhaps mindful of selling Landis to a modern, politically correct audience, Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, side steps some of the more outrageous Landis stories that are out there. Those of the type that risk turning him into an object of ridicule, or that may prove counterproductive in a book that sets out to praise rather than bury him.  So, no mention of the perversely amusing story about Landis’ cross-dressing impersonation of Jimmy McDonough’s girlfriend (hilariously recounted by McDonough himself in Xerox Ferox) and the perverse but not so amusing story about Landis’ online harassment of late 00’s internet personality Nekromistress (alluded to in Mike McPadden’s 2008 obit of Landis, and which I can still vividly recall seeing played out all over the internet). 

If there is a downside to Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, and it isn’t at all the fault of the book or Fassel himself, it is that it creates a hunger for Landis’ original writing that a Sleazoid newbie will find hard to satisfy.  While the Sleazoid book remains readily available, ‘Anger’ Landis’ 1995 biography of underground filmmaker Kenneth Anger has slipped out of print, and issues of Sleazoid Express itself have become rare as hen’s teeth, even in reproduced form.  As this book hints, attempts to have them officially re-printed in book form are currently being stonewalled by certain parties.  Leaving the bulk of Landis’ writing in limbo “for reasons that have as much to do with the legal as they do with the esoteric”. 

Bringing Sleazoid back from the brink might be beyond everyone’s reach at the moment, but Fassel isn’t prepared to let Landis be forgotten without a fight.  As an exercise in raising Landis’ profile, and attempting to restore his status as an important, if not THE most important commentator on exploitation cinema, Landis: The Story of a Real Man on 42^nd Street, is a commendable piece of investigative journalism, delivered with a massive amount of heart and love for the man.  All these years on from Ecco: The Story of a Fake Man on 42nd Street, everybody’s (still) talking about ‘Joe Monday’.     

                

West End Jungle Boy- an interview with Arnold Louis Miller

A 2008 interview with pioneering british sexploitation filmmaker Arnold Louis Miller by DARIUS DREWE, originally published on the cultmovieforums.com website. Having survived nearly all of his contemporaries, and lived long enough to see his films released on DVD, Blu-Ray, and shown on BBC4, Miller passed away in April 2014, at the ripe old age of 91.   

 

Below you will find a transcript of an interview I did on Friday the 30th January 2008 in North Harrow, Middlesex, with legendary sexploitation and mondo director Arnold Louis Miller.

This was my first interview assignment of this kind (although I had done interviews over the phone with people in the music industry as far back as twelve years ago) and I must confess to being a little nervous, not to say slightly in awe of the man, who was not only a real pioneer in terms of UK exploitation cinema, but had also been involved in a non-directorial capacity in productions of a more highbrow nature by comparison (such as the films of Michael Reeves) and worked with some of my heroes!!

Was he going to be friendly? What would he think of my interviewing style? Would he object to any of the questions? Would he remember half of what I asked him?

I needn't have worried. At age 86, Arnold is still a very lucid, friendly, amenable and welcoming man. Admittedly, a few times during the interview, I had to repeat the question, as he suffers now from partial deafness, and there were a couple of occasions where he didn't necessarily get the point I was making (or agree with it) and I had to do a bit of 'reiteration' to eventually get him to answer my original question, rather than what he thought I was getting at. I also hope I didn't mumble, as I felt maybe I did a little on a couple of occasions, but that might just be paranoia.

Overall, he was a pleasure to work with. His memory, and the amount of information within it, amazed me. Several times he informed me of things I had never even thought of or considered about the process of film-making in 1960s Britain, and I came away from the whole experience feeling suitably illuminated, only wishing that maybe there was more time.

I can't help wondering what a more 'politically correct' interviewer would have made of several of his attitudes towards gender roles, particularly now in 2009, but all I can say is, if you have any leanings towards those political viewpoints, then maybe it's best that you stay away from cult and/or trash cinema, as it's clearly not the world for you!! Personally, I've never been fazed by such rhetoric, and found Arnold's frankness a refreshing change from the confused thinking often displayed in today's entertainment industry by professionals and fans alike, even if he did seem a little misinformed on certain aspects of contemporary life such as nightclubbing. I wish there were more young people in film and TV now with his honesty and candour. We could do with them…

So read on. For the purposes of this article, I will refer to myself, rather than by either my real name or board alias, as "Cult Movie Forums", as it is this site I am representing.

INTERVIEW

Cult Movie Forums: The first question I have to ask is this. I notice that you produced and funded WEST END JUNGLE yourself, but where did the money come from in those days? Independent filmmaking was still quite new. Is there any truth in the story that it was co-financed by a church minister of all people?

Arnold Louis Miller: No, he wasn't a minister as such. At the time of WEST END JUNGLE I was in association with Stanley Long, who was a cinematographer, and he had an acquaintance with Leonard Urry, who was a 'man about town'. (NB: The author has since found out that Urry is a fascinating character himself, having been the financier of Peter Sellers' "lost film" Mr Topaze- DRS) , and he was very interested in clubs and club land at that time. And when the Wolfenden Report became law, he said "I think there's a need for a film on the various aspects of London nightlife", after the Report so to speak. So he was the one who funded WEST END JUNGLE.

CMF: Ok, I see. So what would you say to the criticisms levelled, either now or then, by the more politically correct factions of society, who would suggest that such films are exploitative of women in their nature?

ALM: There will always be criticisms of film, and often the censors, I think, are wrong, in banning certain films. I mean, I didn't have any part in visiting or financing near-beer joints, nor did I have any connection with call girls, or massage parlours, or strip clubs, or fake photographic models, myself. But they all existed, and the fact that we recreated them on film only showed reportage of same. So therefore, I don't think that that sort of criticism is in any way fair.

CMF; No, nor do I. Now, how many of the dancehall hostesses of that time, do you reckon, were actually secretly working in prostitution? Was it merely a question of persuasion for some of them? Did many of them feel they would inevitably just end up doing that?

ALM: I really don't think that there was that great a number of those girls having a second career as prostitutes, no. I think that many of them were hoping that their careers in strip clubs as dancers would lead to a career on the legitimate stage. They were mostly young, nice-looking, nicely figured, and as such were hoping to make their careers in that legitimate way. I don't think they set out to be prostitutes.

CMF: Do you think the same happens now, i.e. that young girls arrive in London lured by the bright lights, and end up in professions that they didn't necessarily want? Do you think this is something peculiar to London, or does it happen in other capital cities?

ALM: I'm not sure about other capitals, but yes, with London, there will always be young men and young girls who come there for that lure of bright light. I think that, if anything, it is worse now than at the time of WEST END JUNGLE. Because we now have the question of drugs and 24-hour drinking. It's a common sight now on TV to see girls lying in the gutter absolutely drunk, and to be drug addicts as well. So I think that if anything, things have deteriorated, and more and more young people go missing from the parental home than ever they did before.

CMF: Yes, you mention in the film the men who lurk on station platforms, waiting for suggestible girls to arrive from out of town. Now, they seem to have disappeared these days. Do you think they are a thing of the past, why do you think that is, and when did it happen?

ALM: I'm not completely au fait with the situation of today, but I think that young girls and young boys now frequent clubs with music, rather than anything else, being the No 1 attraction, and I think that if there are any 'scouts' looking for talent in these clubs, that's where they'll find them. (NB: I didn't have time to disagree at length with Arnold, who I think is slightly mistaken here, on this point, but I did have to say that they never lurked around any girls in clubs I frequented in London, except when the girl in question was a known glamour model already)

CMF: Most probably, although they never came to any of the clubs that I went to. Now, you mention 'feminine curiosity' in that sequence of the film, and how it will inevitably lead them to that shady man, and get them into his car. Do you think that still applies?

ALM: I would imagine that young girls, who might find themselves short of money, or have a necessity for money, would be lured quite easily by a smooth-talking older man who looked like he knew his way around town, and the question of money would arise. Not immediately, but the offer of a flat or some sort of residence would be a great attraction to a girl from out of town.

CMF: You may be right. But the narrator sometimes seems to adopt a disapproving tone toward such events (even though he is obviously reading from a script). Now, is this your own disapproval, or an attempt to maybe balance things in the eyes of the censor? For instance, at one point the narrator appears to, if not so much as actually interrogate, then take a very direct line of questioning with the owner of a dance hall. Is there irony and humour in this? It's ambiguous.

ALM: I've never been aware that the commentary disapproved directly of anything, as far as I thought we were just reporting things that actually went on. I don't quite agree with you there. I have to say, I was completely neutral, and never connected with any of the ideas or incidents shown. I knew some of the girls who were prostitutes, and I have to say, quite frankly, that I always found them to be quite humorous. I remember, they always used to say 'goodnight' to me on my way home, "goodnight guv", that sort of thing. I always used to be amused when I saw the police arrest them, and they'd often say things like "Ere, it's not my turn to be pinched, I got done last week!" And one of the items that I find very humorous today, looking at WEST END JUNGLE, is the prices. I mean, fines of 30 shillings for a prostitute, 3 guineas for a fake photographic model, 78 pound for a visit to a club for 4 people with the girls buying toys, and cigarette girls providing fags. But times have moved on, and things have become much more expensive.

CMF: Yes, you're right there, not that I have that much personal experience (Arnold laughs) No, er, moving swiftly on… you seem to suggest in this film that it's the men who are the gullible ones here, and that the women groom them by giving them flannel like 'you're nice, you're not like all the others' etc. Basically, that the women are the ones with the power, and are exploiting the men. Do you think that's true?

ALM: I think that without a doubt, girls, women, rule the roost with regard to sex. Men are attracted to legs. Legs with black silk stockings and high heels. The common denominator in fashion today is 'low'- low cut blouses, low cut sweaters, showing mammaries- there's a nice word for breasts, even nicer than tits-

CMF: (interjecting) How about 'norks'?

(Arnold laughs again)

ALM: I think that once girls give men, or especially young men, the come-on, men are very very loathe not to accept.

CMF: Yes, that's definitely been the case from what I've known. Now, obviously the scenes in the film are acted, and not taken from real life. But was there anything there that was meant to be a literal recreation of a particular real-life incident?

ALM: No, but they were all copies of real life incidents that do occur. There was nothing I think that was recreated word for word, though. I think the near-beer joints are the most coldly calculating, where first of all the man is a sucker for sitting next to an attractive girl, and drinking a non-alcoholic drink, all for the promise of sex later, which of course never actually matured. But meanwhile, he is paying through the nose for drink, sitting next to a girl, maybe putting his hand on her knee and if he's lucky, her waist. But that would be all.

CMF: Oh, I know all about them, I worked for a bloke who ran a clip joint when I first moved back to London myself, aged 19!! It did happen, even as late as the 90s it was going on. Now, with regard to the actresses and actors involved, they're not known names in the way that say, Kenneth Cope or Pauline Collins would be in your later films, and indeed they're not even particularly known even to devotees of exploitation cinema. Were any of them selected from similar backgrounds to those described in the film? Were any of them struggling actresses who supported their income by dancing in dancehalls and strip joints, or did any of them go on to be? What has become of many of them now, nearly 50 years on?

ALM: The strip club dancers in the film were, yes, the actual girls who worked strip clubs, and as I said before, they were hopefully in their minds at least going on to the legitimate stage. All the rest of the girls shown came from agencies, and they were all told prior to filming exactly what they needed to do, and they all agreed.

CMF: So, do you have any idea what has become of any of them now?

ALM: I only know that one of the girls who worked in one of the strip clubs went on to become a great success in a TV series.

CMF: Yes, but you mention in your notes that you won't disclose who.

ALM: Quite. I think that I'll just say no more about it (chuckles)

CMF: Yes, whoever she may be, maybe it is best left unknown (disappointed) Now, let's go on to the Wolfenden Report itself. Do you think that Wolfenden was maybe articulating his own sexual peccadilloes, or maybe trying to fight his own frustrations, when he piloted that report? And do you think that when self-appointed (male) moral guardians like Lord Longford, or maybe closer to home, John Trevelyan, put their plans into action, do you think what they're actually doing is addressing their own sexual habits in some way?

ALM: As I've said, I've always believed that men, straight men, are attracted to attractive girls and women. I had a run-in with Longford, and Mary Whitehouse, in the 60s with a film called GROWING UP. Now, GROWING UP showed- well, it was devised really by a professor at one of our universities. There was a great deal of furore about it because one of the teachers (female) was shown in the film masturbating. There was also a boy and a girl of about 8 or 9 in the film, and a young man and a young girl, purportedly in their teens, shown. Now, this 'professor' wanted the young teen boy shown in a state of sexual arousal.

CMF: Ah, I see.

ALM: He couldn't do it in front of the cameras, so he was told to go outside, and told to come back when he was 'able' to depict a state of sexual arousement. He couldn't produce the necessary article, so this producer said "I will do this myself", and dropped his trousers and came. Then I heard the greatest put-down that I can remember in film history, when my cameraman called me over and said "This doesn't look like an adolescent's scrotum through my lens"

CMF: Ha ha!! One wonders how he would know what one is supposed to look like….

ALM (laughing) Exactly. Well, I , er, won't pass comment.

CMF; No, quite. Back to the Wolfenden for a minute, do you think that when he and his supporters forced prostitutes off the streets and into private clubs and 'working flats', they were serving their own interests?

ALM: I've really no knowledge of Wolfenden's reasons, as to why he did this, or why he had that brought in. I mean, there's always a backlash against prostitution or sexual offerings of various types, and I mean, it is THE oldest profession, and it is NEVER going to be stopped. Now, for politicians, in various constituencies, there's always a string church influence, and church influence might mean votes. And that, I think, is the prime reason why every so often, there's an outcry against sexual attraction being offered.

CMF: Oh, undoubtedly, but what I was getting at was, when these Members of Parliament feel the need to stray from their proclaimed path of morality and 'family values', and visit prostitutes, as it has been proven time over that they have, do you think that maybe they've been served well by the Report, in as much as they can now conduct their business behind closed doors, as opposed to having to apprehend women openly on the streets?

ALM: Politicians are men, (NB: the author realises that this is a slight generalisation, and not strictly true, but it was 1960 we were referring to here) and men, no matter what their profession- politicians, Lords, doctors, teachers, professors- they are all subject to the weaknesses of, or rather for, the female flesh. I'll say no more.

CMF: Totally. Now, this is a film set in and around the West End of London, which is always presented as a place of great sexuality and decadence. But later, of course, your own sex films, like SEX FARM, became more suburban in their outlook, almost rural, as did those of your contemporaries such as Derek Ford and Norman Cohen, with a perceived shift away from Central London toward the sexuality of the suburbs. Why do you think that was?

ALM; Well, I'm no longer au fait with London sex life, and in particular Soho's sex offerings and attractions, but films have become much more sexual and open in nature. Nudity isn't in nudist films any more. It's in a high-class, highly-costed film. Nudity, sex, and peccadilloes are all shown in major films today. There is an attraction in looking at films with a sexual content. I don't know the female thoughts about this, but I know from speaking with the women that I know, that the amount of violence shown in films today is a turn-off for them, and they are not particularly intrigued or attracted by sex in the film. But I'll tell you, the big companies would not make films with sex or any kind of sexual content unless they were taking money, and that is the only reason why sex of any kind is put in films- because it makes money.

CMF: Oh yes, totally true. But what do you think it was about the inner city in those days that was so sexual, as opposed to elsewhere?

ALM: Well, I suppose it's true that in those days, that was the only place where sex was available. It was not even on show in film then, I mean, what was it, the Hays code or Hays ruling? That if a couple were to be shown in bed, one leg of the male had to be on the floor. Now, come on, it's very difficult to indulge in any kind of sexual antics with one film, one leg rather, on the floor!! (laughs)

CMF: Well, I've tried, but….no. So do you think more films were made about sex in the suburbs later on because people knew that there had always been something going on beneath the respectable veneer that they wanted to show, to expose maybe?

ALM: Well, the key game was very popular in my early married life. That was when a young couple used to go to a party, and there was a huge fishbowl. Car keys were thrown into that fishbowl, and at the end of the evening, the females would go across, and pull out the car keys, and then go off with the allotted husband. And the…the health farms were another place where sex went on, and couples met, and couples swopped. I think that perhaps there was more money about among the younger marrieds in the suburbs that allowed them to have these sorts of parties, and singles were quite common too, I understand.

CMF: Well, you've actually answered two of my later questions there, as I was going to ask you about the car key scene in PRIMITIVE LONDON, and also a bit about SEX FARM, but we can come back to that later. Now, you just said that you're not au fait any more with Soho, but there is one line that sticks out in my mind from WEST END JUNGLE, where the commentator/narrator says that "Piccadilly is the loneliest place in the world" Do you think that's still true? I've often found that central London can be.

ALM: I think that line was meant for the youngsters who came to London looking for excitement, who'd run away from home, and found that London, and the hub being Piccadilly, could be a very lonely place. And that was the reason, quite frankly. It was also the time of the dancehall- the Lyceum, the Astoria, the Paramount, where youngsters could meet other people of their age, and sex became quite common. But it could still be lonely.

CMF: Yes, as opposed to something 'not spoken about' I suppose. Now, there are a few sections of WEST END JUNGLE where dialogue takes place, between the owner of the bar and the girls and their clients, but it's never actually spoken as such, you hear it instead as thoughts inside their heads which are dubbed later onto the soundtrack. Why was that approach taken? It is quite realistic.

ALM: Costing. It was my early days of film-making, and we were on a very tight budget supplied by Mr Urry, and we found, or rather I knew, that an overall narration was much cheaper than having a sound crew.

CMF: Oh, absolutely. Had you been able to, would you have shown full frontal nudity in the film- that is, if you thought you could get away with it?

ALM: I think that I wouldn't have been able to, with the censor at that time, who I went to see prior to making NUDIST MEMORIES and TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES AND LIVE, and NUDES OF THE WORLD. He said to me, "Arnold, the towel must always be covering the fundamentals"

CMF: There's another wonderful word for you. Now, the narrator was, I think, American-

ALM: Canadian.

CMF: Canadian. Now, was that in order to sell the film in North American markets?

ALM: No. David Gell at that time had a TV programme and was well known, so I thought that would help with the sales.

west end jungle playing new york

CMF: I see, fair enough. There's also a sequence where a prostitute apprehends a man at a bus stop, and asks him what time the next bus is due, or whether she's missed the last one. Now that's an approach I've never seen alluded to before, either in real life or in film. Is that something that you know actually went on?

ALM: Well yes, we were told that when the Wolfenden Report was being strictly enforced and that the girls were not to work the streets, that the "bus stop technique" was being used.

CMF: (surprised, laughs) Well, I never knew that. There's also another line, where a call girl (or rather, an actress) says "If t wasn't for us, there'd be a lot more sex crimes" Do you agree with that?

ALM: Well, this is always the cry of the prostitutes or the madams. And they always say that they're part of a social need. I'm not sure whether, in places like Holland, where sex is more open, and there are licensed brothels….I don't know if the sex crime figures are down or not. I think that it's a good publicity line for the madams and the girls.

CMF: Yes. Do you think, then, that we'll ever see a time in Britain where they have more relaxed sex laws, like in Holland?

ALM: I think that the power of the church has diminished greatly. I think it's now with the older, elderly people. I don't think the youth today goes to church at all, and I think that the power of the church to influence politicians has diminished too. Therefore, there may be licensed brothels, but I think not for another ten years or more, even now.

CMF: The film is only 50 minutes long. Had it been passed by the censor, which it wasn't, would it have played as a main feature, or a support?

ALM: I think that it would have been a main. At the time of WEST END JUNGLE there were many independent cinemas up and down the country, and I think that it would have played as a first feature, with possibly a short, in those days.

CMF: People often say that these films were made for the delectation of the 'dirty Macs'. David McGillivray says that these people were real, and others say they were a myth. Ray Selfe says that once, he attended a screening of SWEET AND SEXY, and that when the lights went up, there was a range of males and females of all ages in that particular Soho cinema. Do you think that WEST END JUNGLE and other films of its kind had a similarly broad appeal?

ALM: I'm really not sure, but I can give you examples that always puzzled me. I made SECRETS OF A WINDMILL GIRL in the old Windmill Theatre, and at the end of a show, there was always a rush for people who'd been sitting at the back to run to the front of the auditorium to be closer to the nude girls, although they never moved. I made a film in Hamburg once, in one of the Reperbahn clubs. Now they had a little gimmick there, which I found both frightening and amusing. It was called their 'salle privy'. Now, you went up with your wife, or girlfriend, or what have you, and you were each given a number, No 1, No 2, No 3 and so on. You watched the show, which was very sexually orientated, and the gimmick was that at the end, the people running the show came and called out the numbers. I was sitting there with my wife, and she said "What's going to happen now?" I said I've no idea. Well, anyway, they called out our numbers, and we both sat tight, until the fellow came over, and said "You've been called". I said, "we're not going up on the stage, we're here to film" And he said OK, and went off. But the point was, the boy and girl who had the numbers had to do, that is recreate, whatever the previous act had done or shown. And my wife said, "My God, I can't imagine". And I said, "Well, there they are. We're the only ones who haven't gone up".

CMF: So, a broad and a broad-minded group of people indulging in it.

ALM: That's true. And downstairs, 50-50 of the audience were either Japanese, or hausfraus, with their shopping, and they were the ones who ran to the front.

CMF: I think I would have liked to have seen that. This next question will be the last I will ask you on WEST END JUNGLE itself, and then if we've got time we'll do a career overview. Now, the British Sex Film is one genre that is yet to have a revival, unlike horror films, which have become popular again recently, and comedies have taken off in this country again as well. Do you think that such films could ever have a revival, or that society has now reached the point where we take those things for granted, and they're not a cause celebre anymore? Do you think maybe that political correctness has gotten in the way?

ALM: I think that the death, or dearth, of sex films made by independents, is down to star names. These days you get star names indulging in sexual practices on screen. I mean, there was a huge furore about, what was it, 9 AND A HALF WEEKS, with Kim Basinger, and that butter scene ( NB: Methinks Arnold may have confused LAST TANGO IN PARIS with the later film here- Author), and these days the independent with unknown people is finished, except for the DVD or VHS available in certain bookshops, where they might go a little further, even today. But I really think that across the board, the independent filmmaker will not make a sex film.

CMF: No, but I'd quite like to make one myself.

ALM: oh, right!!

CMF: Well, that concludes the questions on WEST END JUNGLE itself, so let's ask you about a few other things. Moving on to PRIMITIVE LONDON and LONDON IN THE RAW, which were loosely termed 'mondo' films at the time, I wondered were you influenced in any way by Jacopetti and Prosperi, who made MONDO CANE?

ALM: I thought MONDO CANE was a brilliant film, and we did copy it in PRIMITIVE LONDON, but that film has, by somebody who I don't know, been re-edited, and two sequences have been taken out which are very Mondo Cane-ish. One was where we found a fellow living in Islington who had a tank of piranha fish, and we filmed him throwing live frogs into the tank, which literally exploded as the fish ripped them apart.

CMF: Yes, that sequence is definitely missing from the version I've seen.

ALM: That's right, and I can't find who re-edited it. This other scene, which I am amazed, as we all were, that we were allowed to film, we filmed in London zoo, with the boa constrictor snake.

CMF: Yes!! I'd heard about this.

ALM: We were allowed to film inside the den of the boa constrictor, with a live white rabbit thrown into the cage, the pit, and the rabbit rushing into the corner and cringing as the constrictor came across and wrapped itself round it and killed it.
CMF: Urgh.

ALM: I think the lobster scene- is that in?

CMF: Yes, I think the lobsters are still there.

ALM: Yes, you see. And we sort of prefaced that in the narration, by saying "England is known as a country of animal lovers".

CMF: What about the scene with the stunning of the chickens?

ALM: Oh, terrible, that was the most horrible sequence to film.

CMF; I can imagine.

ALM: It made me quite sick as well.

CMF: Absolutely. And I notice that most of the scenes you mention there were still missing when the film was screened at the NFT a couple of years back, or so I believe.

ALM: Yes. I'm not sure, but I know the film was owned by a company that the BFI couldn't trace, called Troubadour.

CMF: A couple more things about PRIMITIVE LONDON then. How much did you actually know about Mods, rockers and beatniks at the time? You honed in on beatniks, for instance, at quite some length.

ALM: Very little. As a single person, I visited places like the Lyceum and the Astoria, and if we managed to entice a girl to come out for coffee in those days, we did, but I didn't know much of the thinking of Mods, Rockers or Beatniks.

CMF: The film also mentions other, well-dressed young people, not necessarily from a definable group, who 'don't care about tomorrow because they don't know if there will be one', and it describes them as 'the true delinquents'. Is that what you thought of people of a certain age at the time?

ALM; No. Looking back at the dancehalls of that time, I am intrigued how well-dressed the boys were. 99 percent wore ties, and they were all jacketed, and the only rough ones were the Ace Café motorbike boys. But I think that the young people then were considerably more respectful than the youth of today.

CMF: You may be right. Anyway, that's enough of PRIMITIVE LONDON- let's move on to another film of yours I've seen, NUDES OF THE WORLD. Do you think that naturists and nudists, and people who made films about them, such as Michael Keatering, were a lot less innocent than they would have had us believe? They always claimed that there was nothing sexual about it, but do you think there was any truth in that, especially from the male's point of view?

ALM: When I made the film in London Schpielplatz, in Bricket Wood just outside St Albans, I went up there, and (pauses)- if I'm smiling, it's because I've been over this earlier with Natasha (Allen, his publicist) here earlier- well, the owner of that one was a Mr McCaskey. A five foot Scotsman with a young beard covering his fundamentals.

CMF: And hideous spots all over his back, from the footage I've seen.

ALM: Well, I don't know about that, but I went round the camp, looking at it, and I thought, "My God, this will NEVER go on film". They were horrible. They were fat, they were unable to walk without sticks, the women were in no way sexually attractive, and I thought, "My God, I've made a mistake here".

(CMF bursts out laughing)

ALM: But I had the brilliance of an idea- I took three strippers from the Soho clubs, and I said, "girls- high heel shoes, hair, makeup, and a very small towel". I went with these three girls, and I don't know what the edict governing nudism and naturism is, but all I can tell you is that my three girls were followed by men on heat such as I've never seen before.

CMF: Understandable. Now, I notice that Valerie Singleton does the voiceover in that film as well, although this was obviously pre-Blue Peter….

ALM: Well, I think that this was early in her career.

CMF: Yes.

ALM: And I think that one of the girls that I took there went on to make career on TV.

CMF: So I believe. Can we talk about SECRETS OF A WINDMILL GIRL? There's a lot of different types of music in there; from what I can remember, there's a mod group, a folk singer (Dana Gillespie), and another that sings a song about 'Titus Anewt' or whatever, with all the puns and stutters, and I wondered, were you aware of all the different styles that were springing up in London at the time? Was it something you were interested in?

ALM: Once again, SECRETS OF A WINDMILL GIRL has been mucked about with, musically. On the version that you saw, did you have Frank Sinatra singing?

CMF: There's somebody singing Witchcraft, is that Frank?

ALM: That's Frank Sinatra. And I wrote to EMI about it, and said "did you give permission for that to be included in SECRETS OF A WINDMILL GIRL?" after I lost the film. And they never replied to it, so whether they took any action privately or not, I don't know. But as I remember, most of the music came from DeWolfe, and was added after shooting.

1980s VHS makeover for Secrets of a Windmill Girl

CMF; So the folksinger that sings the songs with the puns and the double entendres, was he a real Windmill act?

ALM; He must have been, because we took or brought nobody in.

CMF: Right. I hope you don't mind, but we're coming to the end here, just another couple of things….

ALM: Fair enough.

CMF: Well, there's a line in that film spoken by Pauline Collins, which is "how would you like it if it was your wife and your daughter?" Now, that seems to have been a recurrent theme in sex films of the time- Derek Ford's, Gerry O Hara's, your own. Fair point, but it seems to have also been used in a strange way to draw the male audiences in. Do you think that was a genuine concern for some people?

ALM: Some of that came from Stanley. I had, as you know, an association with Stanley Long.

CMF: Of course.

ALM: And I was quite newly married at that time, or it was quite early on anyway. Now, Stanley went on to make films that were more, er, open than mine. I mean, NUDES OF THE WORLD and TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES AND LIVE were quite innocuous.

CMF: Stanley made NAUGHTY, which I've seen, and yes, it is more explicit.

ALM: Stanley lived in the West End, and he was sharing a flat with Peter Baker, who was the agent for the Bluebell girls, so that was an entrée at the time, when they were inviting girls to come along to casting sessions. And being newly married, I dreaded the thought of being in the newspapers, so I dropped out of sex films entirely, and nudist films.

CMF: Other than Stanley, did you enjoy a friendship wit other makers of British sex films at the time? Were you friends with them?

ALM: I was a contemporary, really, at that time, of Michael Winner!! And if I was to see him now, I'd say "You're bloody well over the top, aren't you, with your car and all that!" He made a film called The Cool Nudist. Because he always liked to use the word 'cool'.

CMF: As in Some Like It Cool.

ALM: Yes, or The Cool Mikado. But I had an arm's length relationship with Nat Miller, and he said to me, "Arnold, the only way you're going to make it in film production is to be different, or cheaper". (CMF laughs) Because our main outlet in those days was the independents, who were much more difficult to deal with than even the circuits.

CMF: But you were never tempted to go down the path of, say, John Lindsay, into hardcore?

ALM: No, no, not at all.

CMF: With regard to Pauline Collins, is it true that her opinion of the film she did with you is quite a low one, and that she doesn't necessarily want it to be seen?

ALM: I haven't seen Pauline for years, so I really don't know what her feelings are about the film. But the other girl (April Wilding- Ed) who in the film made a success, had a horrible affliction. I didn't notice it when I was interviewing her. But this was the affliction: (demonstrating) "My name is (huge blink) so and so and so, (more huge blinks) and I'm looking forward (yet more blinking) to playing the part in the film…" She couldn't say two words without blinking and holding her eyes closed. I thought, "My God almighty, what have I done?", and that's why as much as possible I shoot away from her. That was the reason, because she had this terrible affliction.

CMF: Yes, well, no disrespect to her, but her career didn't really take off, did it?

ALM: Well, she, now, what's the name of that big glass company?

CMF: Triplex? Kenneth Horne's company?

ALM; No, they're a listed company, worldwide-known. Well, she was the niece of one of the directors.

CMF: So, not short of a few bob then.

ALM: No, so it (fame) wasn't critical to her.

CMF: Well, we're just going to round off, if you don't mind, with one question about two of your final films. A TOUCH OF THE OTHER, from 1970, seems similar to Donovan Winter's COME BACK PETER (aka SOME LIKE IT SEXY) from around that time, and also similar to some of Lindsay Shonteff's private eye movies, like CLEGG.

ALM: Kind of.

CMF: Now, I'm thinking, the star, Kenneth Cope, was already quite well known at this time, wasn't he? He was already in RANDALL AND HOPKIRK DECEASED by that point.

ALM; Oh yes.

kenneth cope in a touch of the other

CMF: Now, was he more difficult to work with than the lesser-known actors?

ALM: No, he was an absolute pleasure to work with, and I enjoyed it very much. But for the life of me, I cannot remember the film at all!! And that's why I'm desperate for Barney to get hold of the negative the BFI has stored somewhere, so I can look at it again for general interest. And I'm overjoyed that Ken has managed to appear in CORONATION STREET.

CMF: Absolutely, it's great to see him working. Now, we're going to finish by talking about your final feature film to date, which is SEX FARM. Do you think, as in this story, that all married couples do lose interest in each other after a while, and have to go off and do these extra-curricular things?

ALM: I can't speak for other married couples, less for the majority of married couples. But I think that as time goes on in a marriage, it slows down in many respects. Maybe the husband doesn't want to go out as often as the wife would like. It probably does slow down sexually too. It may be that the wife is interested in more than the missionary position, and that the husband isn't that keen on experimentation. (The author thinks: "things are different now, Arnie!") I think that time dulls many of the attractions, and finance might be a factor- I don't know, but I think there are still many married couples who do enjoy a long and lasting relationship.

CMF: You also mentioned earlier that the health farms were actually to all intents and purposes knocking shops at the time, but we seem to have covered all that. I was going to ask about the actors though. I know that Tristan Rogers is still active, particularly in Australia where he's from, and is still well known for GENERAL HOSPITAL, but most of the others, such as Hilary Labow, Amber Kammer and Claire Gordon, all appear to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Are you still in contact with any of them? Do you know what they're up to now?

ALM: No. The only girl that I see fairly regular from my films is the one that played Olive in ON THE BUSES (Anna Karen, recently in EASTENDERS, who appeared in Arnold's NUDIST MEMORIES and TOP GEAR – Ed) She's the lady driver in TOP GEAR, she was really good, and tried to improve her acting, and has had a fair amount of success. It's rather dried up now, but as producers of television become younger, I think they tend to look upon elderly stars with a jaundiced eye.

CMF: Never a truer word spoken. Now, this is the final question I'm going to ask you. You mention that you left the sex film business around this time, but you also seem to have stopped directing feature films altogether in 1974, when I was born. Was there a particular reason for this, and do you find it strange that people of my age group are now interested in your work?

ALM: I found directing difficult, because I didn't work, or wasn't working, as a filmmaker with 'top of the tree' artists, who were much easier to work with, as Peter Cushing, Boris Karloff and Vincent Price were. It's much more difficult working with lower status artists, who are not so good at remembering lines, and when you put an idiot board up, they so obviously stare at it. Therefore, when I got a contract to make short films for Columbia and Warner (Arnold has made literally dozens of travelogues and educational shorts, as I found out when he handed me a resume) I was only too happy to do that. I travelled the world with my then wife, who unfortunately has now passed away, and we always got a big thrill from going to the cinema and seeing the short in support of a feature. But I never really enjoyed directing, primarily because I wasn't directing the cream of the crop in the way of artists.

CMF: I take it you're retired now, officially.

ALM: I am retired, although…did you see Piers Morgan's Abu Dhabi?

CMF: No, I try and avoid things with Piers Morgan in as much as humanly possible.

ALM: Well, I was intrigued by it, and I was intrigued by the amount of money that is floating around, so much so that I'm going to write to someone in Abu Dhabi's tourist board to make a short film, because my strength will be that his film only lasts one night and is forgotten, whereas my DVD that I'm going to make will last, because it will be given to travel agencies to distribute to men with money, and hopefully, if you're interested in encouraging the backpacker tourist trade, well, we will be freely distributing DVDs to such people.

CMF: Well, I see no reason why you shouldn't make another short- after all, Leni Riefenstahl did just before her hundredth birthday, although it wasn't very good, I have to say. I wasn't going to ask this, but you've just reminded me, by mentioning Peter Cushing, Boris Karloff and Vincent Price, who were all heroes of mine. You worked as associate producer with them on great films like THE SORCERERS, THE BLOOD BEAST TERROR and WITCHFINDER GENERAL, but were you never tempted to direct your own horror movie?

ALM: No, not at all, although I was responsible for- I don't know the correct title- the Young People's Offences Act, because I produced horror comics.

CMF: Oh.


ALM: And Tales From The Crypt, Black Magic, they were all American comics, but I produced them in the UK. And the Daily Mirror ran a front-page article that there was a rush of young people to a cemetery, because that had been mentioned in one of them. So that's my horror contribution.

CMF: Well, there you go!! I never knew any of that. Arnold Louis Miller, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

ALM: I hope you've got some of the material you require.

CMF: I think I've got practically all of it to be honest. I'm only sorry that we started late, but it's been fascinating, and I've learned even more than I had hitherto thought I would, so thanks once again.

And it ended there, and I walked Arnold to the tube station, where (sadly after I had put the recorder away) he made the greatest revelation of all- that Tony Tenser and Michael Klinger, both good friends of his, had brought him in at the last minute to re-edit and re-shoot several scenes, with Catherine Deneuve, of REPULSION, because director Roman Polanski wouldn't allow them as producers to do any cutaways (something he never does, as he feels it compromises his art) To this day, I don't think Roman himself has any knowledge of this. He might now though!!

Arnold also told me that despite being Jewish, he hadn't inherited any business acumen as when his family moved from their original home, they left behind an entire shedful of comic books (the sale of which was the family business), including first editions of Superman, Flash Gordon and a lot of others, simply because they either forgot them or had no room for them. He wonders what they'd be worth now had he held on to them…something which one can only surmise!!!

He told me it had been a pleasure working with me, and I felt the same about him- sadly, with a man of his age, even a lucid and immaculately dressed one such as Arnold, it may be unlikely that I'll get to do so again, but I do feel kind of privileged to have done this at all.

Several weeks later, I submitted the article for Arnold's approval, and was delighted to find that he had added a postscript or 'wind-up' to the interview, which I was then asked to transcribe and add. Although only a footnote in itself, it ties things up nicely, and provides further insight into why people made sex films, and why we still watch them. Aside from a few grammar and syntax alterations made for the sake of clarity and emphasis (which I hope he won't object to), the words are all Arnold's own. So here it is.

ALM: SEX is the world's greatest commercial seller- apart from the sex act itself, which is a cheap form of entertainment, usually starting with school pupils in their early teens. This is still seen today in the number of pregnancies of schoolgirls aged 12 years upwards.

There does not seem to be any form of shame about this, as the girls' parents are usually quite content to give interviews about how 'good' their daughter is. The callow youth who is the father enjoys a short spell of publicity, and in some cases his photograph appears in the national newspapers with the usual line that he and the girl "look forward to being parents".

At the other end of the scale, there are rich and often well-known and elderly men, who enjoy having or being photographed with a young, nubile mini-skirted female on their arm. SEX is sold to the young, particularly young adults, through magazines, which have columns answering any sexual problems they may have, and giving them advice on how to 'spice up' their love life. The schoolgirl is depicted as a sexual object, as shown on film as early as the St Trinians series. Miniskirts are in the female armoury, as demonstrated by singers on TV shaking everything that moves. At the weekends, many drunk and incapable teenagers are to be found showing their charms for all to see.

Male singers, when performing, usually find it part of the act to grab their crotch while thrusting it forward. Many films made show the sexual act, and books describe in graphic detail every derivation of it. I first learnt about sex in school aged 12, when I was told about the delights of masturbation. Sexual experiences have always been a subject of conversation for men, women, girls and mixed company, and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future.

Let me close on a humorous note. During World War 2, the actor Jackie Cooper married forces sweetheart Betty Grable. He used to greet strangers with the following gambit: "Shake the hand that held the cock that fucked Betty Grable, the best pair of legs in the world". I think that more or less says it all.

Copyright: Arnold Louis Miller 2009.